Legislature(1995 - 1996)
02/14/1995 05:12 PM House WTR
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON WORLD TRADE AND
STATE/FEDERAL RELATIONS
February 14, 1995
5:12 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Ramona Barnes, Chairman
Representative Gail Phillips, Vice Chairman
Representative Eldon Mulder
Representative Bill Williams
Representative Gary Davis
Representative Gene Kubina
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Jerry Mackie
OTHER HOUSE MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Scott Ogan
Representative Jeannette James
Representative Richard Foster
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
* HJR 22: Relating to the maritime boundary between Alaska and
the former Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE
* HJR 12: Supporting line item veto power for the President of
the United States.
PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE
* HJR 26: Urging the United States Congress to uphold Alaska's
right to 90 percent of the royalties from oil, gas and
coal leasing on state land as provided by the
Statehood Compact adopted by a vote of the people on
April 24, 1956.
PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE
(* First public hearing)
WITNESS REGISTER
REPRESENTATIVE AL VEZEY
Alaska State Legislature
State Capitol, Room 216
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
Telephone: 465-3719
POSITION STATEMENT: Offered sponsor statement for HJR 22
MARK SEIDENBERG, Vice Chairman
State Department WATCH Ltd.
66A North Bedford Street
Arlington, Virginia 22201
Telephone: (818) 223-8080
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HJR 22
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE NAVARRE
Alaska State Legislature
State Capitol, Room 521
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
Telephone: 465-3779
POSITION STATEMENT: Offered sponsor statement for HJR 12
REPRESENTATIVE NORMAN ROKEBERG
Alaska State Legislature
State Capitol, Room 110
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
Telephone: 465-4968
POSITION STATEMENT: Offered sponsor statement for HJR 26
SARA HANNAN, Executive Director
Alaska Environmental Lobby, Inc.
Post Office Box 22151
Juneau, Alaska 99802
Telephone: 463-3366
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HJR 26
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HJR 22
SHORT TITLE: ALASKA/RUSSIA MARITIME BOUNDARY
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) VEZEY,Ogan,Toohey
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/25/95 129 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
01/25/95 129 (H) WTR, STA
02/14/95 (H) WTR AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 408
BILL: HJR 12
SHORT TITLE: LINE ITEM VETO FOR U.S. PRESIDENT
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) NAVARRE,Brown,Davies
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/16/95 19 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
01/16/95 19 (H) WTR, STA, JUD
01/18/95 74 (H) COSPONSOR(S): DAVIES
02/14/95 (H) WTR AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 408
BILL: HJR 26
SHORT TITLE: OIL & GAS ROYALTIES
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) ROKEBERG,Ogan,Navarre
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
02/01/95 197 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
02/01/95 197 (H) WTR, O&G
02/14/95 (H) WTR AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 408
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 95-4 SIDE A
Number 000
The meeting of the House Special Committee on World Trade and
State/Federal Relations was called to order by Chairman Ramona
Barnes at 5:12 p.m. Members present at the call to order were
Representatives Barnes, Phillips, Williams, G. Davis and Kubina.
Members absent were Representatives Mulder and Mackie.
CHAIRMAN RAMONA BARNES stated there was a quorum present.
HWTR - 02/14/95
HJR 22 - ALASKA/RUSSIA MARITIME BOUNDARY
Number 004
REPRESENTATIVE AL VEZEY, sponsor of the measure, stated that HJR
22 is not a radical proposal as some have suggested that perhaps
Alaska is trying to start a confrontation with the Soviet Union,
which is not the case at all. Until 1984, the policy of the
United States government was that Wrangell Islands, Herald
Islands, and the American De Long Islands were U.S. Territories
by virtue of discovery and possession. The U.S. did have
sovereignty over these islands until the administration of the
U.S. State Department unilaterally said that we didn't have
possession. The U.S. Congress has never concurred in that
statement, there's never been a treaty signed and to this day,
the border between the Soviet Union and Alaska is undetermined.
Around 1988, there was an offshore oil lease sale in the Navarin
Basin. Ultimately, the federal government gave the purchasers
their money back because the leases were never issued because the
U.S. could not ascertain that we owned those offshore basins even
though they were within our 200-mile limit.
Number 030
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY said the claim to this island starts back in
1867, when Captain Thomas Long and his crew discovered Wrangell
Island in the Chukchi Sea. Captain Long named the island after
the former governor of Russian Alaska, Baron Ferdinand Petrovich
von Wrangell. The island has an area of 1,740 square miles and
is located some 270 miles northwest of Cape Lisburne.
REPRESENTATIVE ELDON MULDER arrived at 5:20 p.m.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY stated the first recorded landing of the
Wrangell Island wasn't until 1881, when Captain Long raised the
American flag and took possession of the island in the name of
the U.S. In 1921, Arctic explorer Vilhjalmur Stefansson, an
American, acquired the rights to the island and established a
settlement. The settlement failed in 1923.
Number 142
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY added that a year later, Russians captured a
few American settlers and sent them to Vladivostok. Subsequent
to that date, the U.S. still asserted its claim to those islands.
He went on to say there is much at stake for Alaska. There's
tens of thousands of square miles of seabed over which we have
some rights to, mostly federal rights. There is a great deal of
land. It wasn't until 1959 that the Soviets finally paid
reparation for the property, not the land they confiscated in
1924.
Number 171
MARK SEIDENBERG, Vice Chairman, State Department WATCH Ltd.,
wished to impress upon to the committee just how large a loss
Alaska would suffer if we failed to fight for its rights.
Because of the proposed U.S.-U.S.S.R. maritime boundary, the
federal government is intent on giving away enough seabeds in the
Arctic Ocean and Bering Sea nearly equal to the size of Texas.
Alaska faces the loss of sovereignty, property, mineral and other
resource rights and related businesses and jobs. This total
could easily range into the billions of dollars.
Number 215
MR. SEIDENBERG stressed the point that there's a good probability
that valuable oil and gas deposits exist throughout the Chukchi
Sea. These represent potential revenue sources through direct
ownership of the submerged lands and taxing other production.
Number 230
MR. SEIDENBERG read from a prepared statement on behalf of CARL
OLSON, Chairman of the State Department WATCH, Ltd. In the
statement, Mr. Olson said that his group had been fighting the
horrendous potential giveaway of Alaskan territory and seabeds to
the Russians for over ten years. For the over 15 years the
federal government has been working on the proposed maritime
boundary, it has never voluntarily allowed Alaska or the general
public to participate. Mr. Olson suggested legal action to
correct this problem.
MR. SEIDENBERG continued on Mr. Olson's behalf and recalled at
the time the proposed Maritime Boundary Agreement was signed on
June 1, 1990, by Secretary of State, James Baker III and Soviet
Foreign Minister, Eduard Shevardnadze, they signed a secret side
agreement. It states that the two governments would abide by the
terms of the proposed agreement regardless of whether it were
ever ratified or put into effect in the normal diplomatic
process. This amounts to a unilateral amendment to the
Constitution, which gives the Secretary of State the power to
adopt agreements that normally takes a completed treaty to
implement.
Several nationwide and local groups have adopted resolutions
opposing the giveaway, including the American Legion, Veterans of
Foreign Wars, Daughters of the American Revolution and Young
Americans for Freedom. The California State Legislature passed a
resolution a few years ago backing Alaska's rights in this area,
since a threat to one state's sovereignty and borders is a threat
to all.
Number 290
CHAIRMAN BARNES acknowledged the fine work of Messrs. Seidenberg
and Olson and inquired about a U.S. Senate passed resolution on
their behalf.
Number 305
REPRESENTATIVE GAIL PHILLIPS inquired of the sponsor as to what
Alaska's congressional delegation position was on this
resolution.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY stated that from all correspondence, they do
not wish the U.S. government to assert any territorial claims
over the area.
Number 320
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS asked what counter action was taken by
our delegation after the 1990 agreement.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY was not up-to-date to be able to offer a
qualified answer.
Number 320
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS asked how the breakup of the U.S.S.R.
effect the legality of the agreement.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY said that the U.S. State Department would
unilaterally abide by that agreement pending ratification by the
Russian government and Soviet government and the U.S. Congress.
Neither occurred because the Soviet government collapsed and
Congress either didn't take up the agreement or it didn't pass.
So, for all intents and purposes the whole boundary question is
in limbo.
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS noted two very differing fiscal notes
(one, a zero fiscal note) accompanying this resolve and asked
about the high fiscal note of $150,000. Since this has been
researched and researched, to the point of having volumes and
volumes of historical perspective, there wouldn't be any need for
the Department of Law to require the services of an international
law expert in Washington, D.C. to spend around 500 hours of
research.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY could not see any reason for a high fiscal
note and felt that we already have enough research for the state
to be able to take a position, and added that all the resolution
is asking is that the U.S. not enter into a treaty with the
Soviet Union without allowing a representative from Alaska to
participate in the negotiations.
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS stated that a fiscal note from the
Administrative Services Division signed by Richard Pegues, says
that HJR 22 would require a study of the maritime boundaries in
order to determine the following. Representative Phillips was
incensed at the fact that if this piece of legislation has been
introduced and certainly not new to the state of Alaska, that it
would have a such an outrageous fiscal note.
Number 359
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER also was offended by the high fiscal note
and understood it to mean the Administration took a dim view of
the measure. He wished to reconstruct a fiscal note.
REPRESENTATIVE GENE KUBINA did not feel it was a blatant fiscal
note. He suggested that the committee do away with this Resolve
and that would resolve the fiscal note.
REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA moved to amend HJR 22 by deleting lines
15-29 from page 3.
CHAIRMAN BARNES asked if there was objection. Hearing none, the
amendment was adopted.
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS moved that the committee pass HJR 22(am)
out of committee with a zero fiscal note and individual
recommendations.
CHAIRMAN BARNES said the question before the committee is, shall
the committee pass HJR 22 amended, with a zero fiscal note.
Hearing no objection, HJR 22 (am) passed out of committee.
HWTR - 02/14/95
HJR 12 - LINE ITEM VETO FOR U.S. PRESIDENT
Number 431
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE NAVARRE, sponsor of the resolution, stated
that as the national deficit continues upward, the President is
lacking one of the tools to help slow the budget spiral--the
line-item veto. The item veto for the President has been debated
for over 100 years. The line-item veto first appeared in the
Constitution of the Confederate States in 1861. On many
occasions line-item veto legislation has been introduced in
Congress, but none has passed.
REPRESENTATIVE NAVARRE says that Alaska is one of the states
where the Governor's line-item veto has a successful and proven
track record. The line-item veto has assisted the budget process
in Alaska and should prove useful on the national level.
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS thought it was worth noting that this
issue has been around for over a century and is still being
debated.
Number 464
REPRESENTATIVE GARY DAVIS made a motion to move HJR 12 out of
committee.
CHAIRMAN BARNES asked if there was objection. Hearing no
objection, the motion passed.
HWTR - 02/14/95
HJR 26 - OIL & GAS ROYALTIES
Number 469
REPRESENTATIVE NORMAN ROKEBERG, sponsor of the measure, said this
legislation serves as a reminder to Congress that they do not
have the unilateral right to amend the Alaska Statehood Act.
Alaska has tried since statehood to avoid a confrontation over
issues by working with Congress to ensure that any post-statehood
amendments to the Statehood Act did not materially diminish the
rights conferred to the state of Alaska by the act of admission
into the United States. Representative Rokeberg pointed out that
Section 28 of the Statehood Act clearly states the formula for
sharing bonuses, royalties, and rentals under leases will be
distributed 90 percent to Alaska and 10 percent to the U.S.
Treasury. He added that this resolution seeks to reinforce
Alaska's resolve to protect our right to the 90/10 sharing
formula granted by Congress on July 7, 1958.
Number 500
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS would like the sponsor to verify the date
that Alaskans voted on the Statehood Compact.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said he will look into verifying the
April date.
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS was excused from the meeting at 5:55 p.m.
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked the sponsor if Congress was working
on legislation to reduce Alaska's royalty share percentage.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG responded that testimony in committee
hearings was taken that the preference by the congressional
delegation for Committee Substitute for HJR 13 (Oil & Gas) was
not have any indication or they preferred not to have the
royalty-share mentioned in that particular resolution.
Objections were raised. Representative Rokeberg shared the basic
premise that we should not diminish any of our revenues.
Number 535
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG indicated that in conversations with all
three of Alaska's congressional offices, the feeling in
Washington, D.C. is that if we are going to open up the Arctic
National Wildlife Refuge that they would be prepared to revert to
a 50-50 split.
TAPE 95-4, SIDE B
Number 000
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER made a motion for a friendly amendment to
delete lines 12 and 13 from page 2.
CHAIRMAN BARNES called for the question. Hearing no objection,
the motion passed.
Number 044
SARA HANNAH, Executive Director of the Alaska Environmental
Lobby, Inc., thought that it's not only the state's right but the
responsibility of a frugal owner, especially with regard to
nonrenewable resources to oversee responsible, respectable
development and that Alaska deserves 90 percent of the oil and
gas royalties due the state in the Statehood Compact.
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER made a motion to move HJR 26(am) out of
committee with individual recommendations.
CHAIRMAN BARNES called for the question. Hearing no objection,
the resolution passed out of committee.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to come before the House Special
Committee on World Trade and State/Federal Relations, CHAIRMAN
BARNES adjourned the meeting at 6:05 p.m.
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